Curse

xiao1985 · Oct 19, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

sigh....

not a pretty sight to see... i am supposing none of posters here are from china/korea...

i am not so sure about korea, but i can almost say i sympathise (but do not forgive) the gold farmers...

the social economic status of china is a mess... the poors live on $5 a month, literally, the rich gets richer by the minute... i don't want to get into political side of the things, but truth stands that there are lots of labour supply, not enough labour demand...

So opporunitists employ those people to do such work... to be honest, if you are worrying how to spend 5 dollars in a month, you'd be estatic to have a job... any job to fill your tummy... and for those who are thinking social security - no, there are none in china... well at least last time i went there were none...

so the gold farmers really didn't have a choice.... that's why i sympathise them.... the one's who's doing the wrong doing is really the funder of the gold farming company... but then, seeing how many people they have fed, i feel hesitant to condemn them too...

but then, if i was from a poor village in china, if i was to see my friends, my parents starve i'd do the same...

my 5c

Riesz · Oct 19, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by xiao1985

sigh....

not a pretty sight to see... i am supposing none of posters here are from china/korea...

i am not so sure about korea, but i can almost say i sympathise (but do not forgive) the gold farmers...

the social economic status of china is a mess... the poors live on $5 a month, literally, the rich gets richer by the minute... i don't want to get into political side of the things, but truth stands that there are lots of labour supply, not enough labour demand...

So opporunitists employ those people to do such work... to be honest, if you are worrying how to spend 5 dollars in a month, you'd be estatic to have a job... any job to fill your tummy... and for those who are thinking social security - no, there are none in china... well at least last time i went there were none...

so the gold farmers really didn't have a choice.... that's why i sympathise them.... the one's who's doing the wrong doing is really the funder of the gold farming company... but then, seeing how many people they have fed, i feel hesitant to condemn them too...

but then, if i was from a poor village in china, if i was to see my friends, my parents starve i'd do the same...

my 5c

I have to sympathize with them too.

We cannot even begin to fathom living in such conditions and yes, I know the gold farming, bots and gold buyers ruin the in-GAME economy of a GAME we play in our spare time for enjoyment, but to these people the farming must be done to put food on the table. I've read several articles about chinese gold farmers and I think one was even in the PC Gamer Nightfall issue. I'd have to admit if I was living in poverty in China I'd much rather sit at a computer 18 hours a day than risk my life working in dangerous conditions in factories. I've read many articles and watched documentaries on the conditions in chinese factories and it is appalling, to say the least. While I don't think buying gold is fair and don't like to see the Mo/W bots in-game, a part of me is happy they aren't losing limbs in an iPod factory and might be making enough money to send home to elderly in their families who cannot work anymore.

For the record, I have not and will not ever spend real money on in-game currency, items, accounts, etc. I'd much rather make a donation to charities who get that money to people in horrible situations of poverty. It's a terrible situation that has been going on for generations, but at least the few who are lucky enough to get gold farming jobs aren't breaking their backs in the fields or working in the dangerous conditions of most factories. Of course, most must still work in those environments...

Shanaeri Rynale · Oct 19, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Given the choice between hard manual labour and bot farming, i must admit i'd probably go for the latter. A nice clean office, money to feed my family and the chance to create my own bot business eventually.

When your family is hungry and, for example you desire an education all thoughts of the effects your actions have in a pretend world would go out of the window.

For sure these people are exploited, but no more than those who make cheap jeans, pumps or coffee. If you don't want to see 'botters' exploited, then only buy fair trade coffee, jeans etc etc. You can't condemn the gold owners and yet supply the Jeans sweatshop next door to it.

They have cottend onto this tho, I did a quick browse of ebay just now and some sites are claiming to be 'fair trade' gold sellers where they pay their employee's well etc etc.

We all know botting damages the in game economy, and the fact that it drives exploitation in some real life areas. I guess the question is, is if they did'nt bot gold would they be exploited somewhere else. My gut feel says yes

Now i'm not defending botting, ebay gold etc, only that the issue raised as way more complex than who wears the black hat and who wears the white one.

The issue really is a real life one, not a computer game one and it's an issue with no easy answer.

Tobias Funke · Oct 19, 2006, 07:40 AM // 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

We all know botting damages the in game economy, and the fact that it drives exploitation in some real life areas. I guess the question is, is if they did'nt bot gold would they be exploited somewhere else. My gut feel says yes

More likely unemployed. Life in China sucks for the majority of people. We have to keep things relative here. In that situation, I rather be exploited and eat than unemployed and starve.

Hengis · Oct 19, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Wow! There have been some superbly well thought and reasoned posts made on this topic.

I am never cease to be impressed by the standard of posts in these forums.

When I made the original post, I had never really considered looking at the other side of the coin (pun not really intended.. but I noticed it and left it in ^^)

What stood out to me in the original article was the description of the work place and how bad the working conditions were. It did not occur to me that those conditions would be preferable to the conditions in the majority of other jobs that those poeple could do and vastly preferable to being unemployed.

Someone mentioned that "we play this game in our spare time", and that "we complain about botters messing up our imaginary economy", yet to these people it is their REAL economy, keeping food on the table.

Some very interesting and thought provoking comments.

Priest Of Sin · Oct 19, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

my Mule characters on my 2nd account have totally awesome names.

Cb Zb
Fb Wb
Gb McFwib

ect...

Beat_Go_Stick · Oct 19, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobias Funke

Who knows, maybe having more money in the hands of China's youth will help empower them to force politcal and human rights reforms.

Heh, methinks it's the youth who work in these sweat shops rather than own them

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hengis Stone

Wow! There have been some superbly well thought and reasoned posts made on this topic.

Guild Wars Guru: Changing the world one thread at a time.

dansamy · Oct 19, 2006, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Apparently, I have no clue about communism. (I did sleep through world history........)

lightblade · Oct 19, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Apparently, I have no clue about communism. (I did sleep through world history........)

Hope you won't sleep through your Government class too.

Eviance · Oct 19, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

I have only ebayed gold ONCE and then I found out it was the UH OH! and I haven't done it since. I know others who do and I don't hold it against them as it's thier cash that they earned, its not my business.

And personally if I were so huge about gaming that I gave a crap about Crystallines falling or going up in price then I "might" object, but I don't.
Further more these people in China are paid CRAP! They are able to live at least as well as the average American on the wages they make farming gold. Heck as soon as I read the thread I hollared at my lazy gaming bro who won't go out and get a job that he should be a farmer! Can you really blame them when they go from making so very little to making so much that they can for once be more comfortable? Until some federal law prohibits such things I see it as legal and congratulate them on thier success!

Anyone who has ever had money issues to such severity that its day to day grind with little time even for family can understand why these gold farmers do what they do. (Granted this doesn't go for EVERYONE and I am sure there are rich bastards out there making a killing to who really don't need it, but for those two guys that play to make that $100, I can understand.)

In the end this is just my opinion and while it doesn't encompass the entire situation its just a glimpse of how I see it.

I would also like to mention that I find bots to be far worse than those gold farmers who actually SIT there farming it themselves. They are working the 8hr grind for thier supper... Bots are just the rich getting richer while sitting on thier arses in front of the TV >_< I mean if they are going to work for it, then WORK for it!

DeathByAmor · Oct 19, 2006, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sindex

So you scam the scammers, (sarcasm) you are such a wonderful person for doing so (sarcasm). All I have to say to that is you have a hypocritical allocation to the rest of us. It’s like your stating, “Some other people buy gold from Ebay and don’t work for it; so I steal from them making myself look like a hero, while assembling a huge profit”.

People in China and Korea are technically living up the past industrial era of the U.S. and I could blame them; instead I blame the extreme aristocrats controlling their countries; of course we are not going to do anything about, because we have to buy the cheap industrial crud that comes from them via our own extreme aristocrats. It’s our screwed up world, that’s what it amounts too. Finally every time I think about where they get that amassed GW gold; I think about the kids working for it, and every time they get corporal punishment (via physical and psychological torture techniques) and that clears my mind about the issue real fast.

Oh please...give me a break. I do it cause I think it is funny. I'm not trying to be some kind of hero. I am not stealing from them at all, they are giving me their money. While some still see that as stealing it truly is not. I do not feel any sympathy for them. Why did you even bring up the socio-economic conditions in China? I do not care about that stuff at all when it has to do with this game. Me conning these farmers out of their gold they botted fair and square (sarcasm) should be praised. Just think about how many players on US and EU servers have been scammed by these farmers in the UW on duo smite runs. This is justice.

dansamy · Oct 19, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Hope you won't sleep through your Government class too.

Slept through that one too. And English. Stayed awake for Literature. Slept through all my maths and still made As. Stayed awake for Music Theory. Loved that class. Currently sleeping through Music Appreciation (I can write it, I think I can appreciate it already.) and Transition into Practice: RN. (OMG!!! That is the most boring book on the planet.)

Jizzy Jizztastic · Oct 19, 2006, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Hating chinese gold farmers is not unlike vilifying immigrants for 'stealing all our jobs'. The anger and rage is completely misdirected...

Shmanka · Oct 19, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

Oh please...give me a break. I do it cause I think it is funny. I'm not trying to be some kind of hero. I am not stealing from them at all, they are giving me their money. While some still see that as stealing it truly is not. I do not feel any sympathy for them. Why did you even bring up the socio-economic conditions in China? I do not care about that stuff at all when it has to do with this game. Me conning these farmers out of their gold they botted fair and square (sarcasm) should be praised. Just think about how many players on US and EU servers have been scammed by these farmers in the UW on duo smite runs. This is justice.

Keep talking Batman...

Malice Black · Oct 20, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Gold farmers are here to stay, deal with it.

Two April Mornings · Oct 20, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

That's really not the worst job.

sindex · Oct 20, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

Oh please...give me a break. I do it cause I think it is funny. I'm not trying to be some kind of hero. I am not stealing from them at all, they are giving me their money. While some still see that as stealing it truly is not. I do not feel any sympathy for them. Why did you even bring up the socio-economic conditions in China? I do not care about that stuff at all when it has to do with this game. Me conning these farmers out of their gold they botted fair and square (sarcasm) should be praised. Just think about how many players on US and EU servers have been scammed by these farmers in the UW on duo smite runs. This is justice.

Really you think you’re doing great justice, ripping off other scammer and making profit in return. I beg to differ, unless you were giving back the in-game gold you took from them to A-net, (posting up the offenders while your at it) or passing it out randomly maybe you might be "Robin Hood" (I would see as less of a offence); unfortunately your not and using that profit to your own means from the sound of it (2 wrongs don’t make a right). Yes of course you might not care for the weak and dyeing, when you’re living your life; from your point of view you’re probably thinking, “hey they bring it upon themselves anyways.” Yes of course there are ways to deal with this problem, but your way seems a little hypocritical that’s all; of course I respect your opinion, but I just disagree with your methods.

Tonepalu · Oct 20, 2006, 11:11 AM // 11:11

I hate how everyone just labels those of us who havent ebayed, as ebayers just because we have the expensive armor/weapons. I have over 10.6 million xp on my warrior, why? cause I farm everywhere with him. It is not hard to make 1million gold from trolls alone, doesnt take too long either. Really, as others have already said those gold farming monks are here to stay, Anet is doing what they can to halt the flow.You do realise that each time they ban a botters account, that Botter goes out and grabs a new one to continue on normally...dont you? That means even more money to keep the servers we love to play on open, It's just as bad as it is good.

*EDIT*
Sorry to drag up a dead thread xD